Want to learn more about the music genres listed on Artistopia? From Alternative to World, find music classifications and genre descriptions here.
Q. Are you not sure about the type of music that you fall under?
A. Artistopia uses the main genre headings of:
Alternative
Comedy
Hip Hop/Rap
Urban/R&B
Blues
Country
Jazz
World
Children's
Easy Listening
Latin
Undetermined
Christian
Electronic
Metal
Classical
Gospel
Pop & Rock
Trying to classify music has raised controversy and debate for many people. Be that as it may, Artistopia members need to choose a main genre heading that they feel best represents the bulk of their work. Artists will venture into other genres, mix styles, and perhaps create new sounds, but a generic classification heading is a first step in helping visitors to identify and browse their preferences in music. When an album is added in the member Discography section, under Influences, the artist could add what other genres affected the creation of the works included. When adding each song to the album, Song Genre is selected to best describe the work.
Scroll down this page to find a basic description for each of the top genre main headings.
A. Alternative rock (also called alternative music or simply alternative) is a genre of rock music that emerged in the 1980s and became widely popular in the 1990s. The name "alternative" was coined in the 1980s to describe punk rock-inspired bands on independent record labels that didn't fit into the mainstream genres of the time. As a specific genre of music, alternative rock consists of various subgenres that have emerged from the indie music scene since the 1980s, such as grunge, indie rock, Britpop, gothic rock, and indie pop. These genres are unified by their collective debt to the style and/or ethos of punk, which laid the groundwork for alternative music in the 1970s.
Though the genre is considered to be rock, some of its subgenres are influenced by folk music, reggae, electronic music and jazz among other genres. At times alternative rock has been used as a catch-all phrase for rock music from underground artists in the 1980s, all music descended from punk rock (including punk itself, New Wave, and post-punk), and, ironically, for rock music in general in the 1990s and 2000s.
Click Alternative Music for the original article with a more in depth look into the genre.
Artistopia Alternative Music Sub-genres:
Adult Alternative
Alternative General
Grunge
New Wave
Alternative Country
Experimental
Indie/Pop
Power Pop
Alternative Cover Song
Goth Rock
Industrial
Punk/Garage
Q. What is Blues Music?
A. The blues is a vocal and instrumental form of music based on the use of the blue notes and a repetitive pattern which is most of the time a twelve-bar structure. It evolved in the United States in the communities of former African slaves, from spirituals, praise songs, field hollers, shouts, and chants. The use of blue notes and the prominence of call-and-response patterns in the music and lyrics are indicative of the blues' West African pedigree. The blues influenced later American and Western popular music, as it became part of the genres of ragtime, jazz, bluegrass, rhythm and blues, rock and roll, hip-hop, country music, and pop songs.
For more information on the etymology, characteristics and history of the Blues, see Blues music for the original article.
Artistopia Blues Music Sub-genres:
Acoustic Blues
Blues Rock
Electric Blues
Jump Blues
Blues Cover Song
Blues Vocals
General Blues
Q. What is Children's Music?
A. Children's music provides an important and entertaining means of teaching children about their culture, other cultures, good behavior, facts and skills. Many are folk songs, but there is a whole genre of educational music that has become increasingly popular.
For the original article go to: Children's music is a much bigger market than it once was.
Artistopia Children's Music Sub-genres:
Children Cover Song
General Children Music
Q. What is Christian Music?
A. Christian music is music created by or adapted for the Christian church. It also includes Contemporary Christian music, in which the music explores Christian themes but is designed to be played in places other than churches. Music during service for many churches is a big part of the worship. Hymns are sung, psalms are vocalized and spiritual songs are uplifted to praise God. Sometimes, musical instruments are played while singing is implemented in the service. On the other hand, some times churches use just a cappella to worship God. At times, just musical instruments are only used to express praise towards God. All of these ways are used by one church or another in this period of time.
Learn more about Christian Music, which is one of the fastest growing segments of music. The original article explores the history, hymns, Biblical references and traditions.
Artistopia Children's Music Sub-genres:
Contemporary
Inspirational
Praise / Worship
Holiday
Instrumental
Spirituals
Q. What is Classical Music?
A. Classical music is a broad, somewhat imprecise term, referring to music produced in, or rooted in the traditions of, European art, ecclesiastical and concert music, encompassing a broad period from roughly 1000 to the present day. The central norms of this tradition developed throughout this period but reached their heights of complexity and development in the period between 1550 and 1820: what is known as the common practice period.
This music evokes classical traditions, focuses on formal styles, invites technical and detailed deconstruction and criticism, and demands focused attention from the listener. It is written down using a formal notation and a work of classical music is usually defined by the notated version, rather than a particular performance of it. This music is associated with, and often compared to, fine art and high culture, sometimes leading to accusations of haughtiness and exclusivity being levelled at its enthusiasts. Nevertheless, many "classical" pieces were the popular music of their time, and have remained popular to this day. The public taste for and appreciation of formal music of this type is often described as having waned through the later part of the 20th century and into the present millennium, particularly in the USA and UK, although it continues to thrive elsewhere in the world.[1] Certainly, this period has seen classical music falling well behind the immense commercial success of popular music.
The term classical music did not appear until the early 19th century, in an attempt to "canonize" the period from Bach to Beethoven as an era in music parallel to the golden age of sculpture, architecture and art of classical antiquity (from which no music has directly survived). The earliest reference to "classical music" recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary is from about 1836. Since that time the term has come in common parlance to mean the opposite of popular music.
The original article Classical Music details the history, timeline, instruments, and commercial uses of this classification.
Artistopia Classical Music Sub-genres:
Baroque
Electronic Classic
Percussion
Symphonic
Chamber Music
Experimental Classic
Piano
Vocal/Choral
Classical General
Film Music
Romantic
Woodwinds
Contemporary
Medieval
Solo Instruments
Crossover
Opera
Strings
Q. What is Comedy Music?
A. The general terms of "Comedy" and "Comedy Rock" are used here, with the aim that Comedy Music is the performance of the show, music, and/or lyrics are intended to be humorous.
Comedy has a classical meaning (comical theatre) and a popular one (the use of humour with an intent to provoke laughter in general). In the theater, its Western origins are in ancient Greece, like tragedy, a genre characterised by a grave fall from grace by a protagonist having high social standing. Comedy, in contrast, portrays a conflict or agon (Classical Greek ἀγών) between a young hero and an older authority, a confrontation described by Northrop Frye as a struggle between a "society of youth" and a "society of the old". A more recent development is to regard this struggle as a mere pretext for disguise, a comical device centered on uncertainties regarding the meaning of social identity. The basis of comedy would then be a plot mechanism conceived to engender misunderstandings either about a hero's identity or about social being in general.
Returning to the popular term comedy, it is known to be difficult to describe. Humor being subjective, one may or may not find something humorous because it is either too offensive or not offensive enough. Comedy is judged according to a person’s taste. Some enjoy cerebral fare such as irony or black comedy; others may prefer scatological humor (e.g. the "fart joke") or slapstick. A common gender stereotype that plays on this convention is that men love the comedy of The Three Stooges, while women do not.
While hard to pin down, it can safely be said that most good comedy, as with a good joke, contains within it variations on the elements of surprise, incongruity, conflict, and the effect of opposite expectations. The audience becomes a part of the experience, if it is to be successful. Sometimes, it is the fulfillment of the expectation which is part of the experience, such as the long "take" of a Jack Benny, resolved, paradoxically, when the expected happens. Comedy is a serious business, and one only knows it when one sees it, hears it, and shares it.
Comedy rock is a term used to describe rock music that mixes the music with general comedy. This tradition can be traced back to the earliest days of rock n roll itself, the most notable early examples being Stan Freberg and The Coasters. Such artists include blink 182, Adam Sandler, Frank Zappa, Hot and Heavy, Stephen Lynch, "Weird Al" Yankovic, UFO Phil, Primus, Tenacious D, Braal, Worm Quartet, Green Jello, Scatterbrain, Able Bodied Seamen, The Irregars, DVDA (band), Ween, Gwar, Denis Leary and at times System Of A Down. Some comedy rock groups, such as Frank Zappa and Tenacious D, often poke fun at the norms of different rock genres through their lyrics, actions, or imitations of the other genres. Most comedy rockers, however, mainly just create rock and roll with amusing, witty, or over the top lyrics about topics usually not covered by mainstream rock artists.
Rock has been the target of many spoofs and several spoof bands have gone on to have actual hit records and perform live, most notably the Hee Bee Gee Bees and subsequently Spinal Tap in the U.S. and Bad News in the U.K.
A. Country music, also known as country and western music or country-western, is a blend of popular musical forms originally found in the Southern United States. It has roots in traditional folk music, Celtic music, blues, gospel music, and old-time music and evolved rapidly in the 1920s. The term country music began to be widely applied in the 1940s and was fully embraced in the 1970s, while country and western declined in use.
However, country music is actually a catch-all category that embraces several different genres of music: Nashville sound (the pop-like music very popular in the 1960s); bluegrass, a fast mandolin, banjo and fiddle-based music popularized by Bill Monroe and by Flatt and Scruggs; Western, which encompasses traditional Western cowboy campfire ballads and Hollywood cowboy music made famous by Roy Rogers, The Sons of the Pioneers, and Gene Autry; Western swing, a sophisticated dance music popularized by Bob Wills; the Bakersfield sound which used the new Fender Telecaster guitars, a big drum beat, and dance style music that would catch your attention like "a freight train running (Buck Owens)" (popularized by Buck Owens and Merle Haggard); outlaw country made famous in the 1970's by Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Billy Joe Shaver, David Alan Coe, Jerry Jeff Walker, Mickey Newbury, Kris Kristofferson, Merle Haggard, and Hank Williams, Jr.; Cajun style music from the Louisiana Bayou; zydeco; Evangelical Christian inspired gospel; oldtime (generally pre-1930 folk music); honky tonk; Appalachian; rockabilly; neotraditional country; and jug band.
Each style is unique in its execution, its use of rhythms, and its chord structures, though many songs have been adapted to the different country styles. One example is the tune "Milk Cow Blues", an early blues tune by Kokomo Arnold that has been performed in a wide variety of country styles by everyone from Aerosmith to Bob Wills to Willie Nelson, George Strait to Ricky Nelson and Elvis Presley.
A. Easy listening music is a style of popular music which emerged in the mid-20th century. Around 1980, it was the most listened-to radio format in America, although it soon became scarce as a format not because its listeners were too few but because they were getting too old and therefore less desirable for radio advertisers. This type of music features simple, catchy melodies, soft, laid-back harmonies and occasionally rhythms suitable for dancing. While it is mostly instrumental music (often played on light of tone instruments such as the Hammond Organ or Ukulele), some singers, such as Andy Williams, Jack Jones, Engelbert Humperdinck and Eydie Gorme had vocal styles which were highly compatible with this style. Much of the work of some other pop vocalists, including Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Tom Jones, and Mel Torme was too frenetic or swing-oriented to be played in an easy listening format. Beautiful music is a subset of easy listening music, since as a radio format it had rigid standards for instrumentation (e.g., few or no saxophones) and restrictions on how many vocal pieces could be played in an hour. It is sometimes called Nostalgia music.
The term has sometimes been applied negatively in the years since this format went out of fashion. It is similar to what is called "lounge" or "lounge core", but lounge music is much more jazz-oriented and dependent on improvisation than easy listening. Easy listening music is almost always orchestrated and is more analogous to classical music than to jazz. Since easy-listening music is rather unknown to the younger generations, the term easy listening is often incorrectly applied to soft pop, Smooth Jazz or new age music. Easy listening music is also sometimes known as "mood music" or "MOR", or more pejoratively as "Muzak" or "elevator music".
Adult contemporary music is a more hip form of easy listening and is one of the top radio formats in the USA today. Easy listening errorneously refers to instrumental elevator music by some.
Take a closer look at Easy Listening music by viewing the original article.
Artistopia Easy Listening Music Sub-genres:
Broadway
Lounge
Mood Music
Soft Rock
Easy Listening Cover Song
Love song
New Age
Vocals
Q. What is Electronic Music?
A. Electronic music is a term for music created using electronic devices. As defined by the IEEE standards body, electronic devices are low-power systems and use components such as transistors and integrated circuits. Working from this definition, distinction can be made between instruments that produce sound through electromechanical means as opposed to instruments that produce sound using electronic components. Examples of an electromechanical instrument are the teleharmonium, Hammond B3, and the electric guitar, whereas examples of an electronic instrument are a Theremin, synthesizer, and a computer.
A very broad music genre, read more about Electronic Music from the original article.
Artistopia Electronic Music Sub-genres:
Ambient/Abstract
Electronica
House/Progressive
Trip hop
Breakbeat/Funky
Electronica Cover Song
Industrial Electronic
UK Garage
Dance/Club/Euro
Experimental
Techno/Rave
Drum N' Bass
Game Soundtrack
Trance/Psytrance
Q. What is Gospel Music?
A. Gospel music may refer to the religious music that first came out of African-American churches in the first quarter of the twentieth century or, more loosely, to both black gospel music and to the religious music composed and sung by predominately white Southern Gospel artists. While the separation between the two styles was never absolute — both drew from the Methodist hymnal and artists in one tradition sometimes sang songs belonging to the other — the sharp division between black and white America, particularly black and white churches, kept the two apart. While those divisions have lessened slightly in the past fifty years, the two traditions are still distinct.
In both traditions, some performers, such as Mahalia Jackson have limited themselves to appearing in religious contexts only, while others, such as Sister Rosetta Tharpe, the Golden Gate Quartet and Clara Ward, have performed gospel music in secular settings, even night clubs. Many performers, such as The Jordanaires, Al Green, and Solomon Burke have performed both secular and religious music. It is common for such performers to include gospel songs in otherwise secular performances, although the opposite almost never happens.
Go to the original article at Gospel Music to find out more.
Artistopia Gospel Music Sub-genres:
A Cappella
Inspirational
Southern
Contemporary
Instrumental
Spirituals
Holiday
Praise / Worship
Traditional
Q. What is Hip Hop and Rap Music?
A. Hip hop music, also referred to as rap or rap music, is a style of popular music which came into existence in the United States during the mid-1970s, and became a large part of modern pop culture during the 1980s. It consists of two main components: rapping (MCing) and DJing (audio mixing and scratching). Along with hip hop dance (notably breakdancing) and urban inspired art, or notably graffiti, these compose the four elements of hip hop, a cultural movement that was initiated by inner-city youth, mostly African Americans in New York City, in the early 1970s.
Typically, hip hop music consists of intensely rhythmic lyrical form making abundant use of techniques like assonance, alliteration, and rhyme. The rapper is accompanied by an instrumental track, usually referred to as a "beat", performed by a DJ, created by a producer, or one or more instrumentalists. This beat is often created using a sample of the percussion break of another song, usually a funk or soul recording. In addition to the beat other sounds are often sampled, synthesized, or performed. Sometimes a track can be instrumental, as a showcase of the skills of the DJ or producer.
Hip hop began in The Bronx, located in New York City, when DJs began isolating the percussion break from funk and disco songs. The early role of the MC was to introduce the DJ and the music and to keep the audience excited. MCs began by speaking between songs, giving exhortations to dance, greetings to audience members, jokes and anecdotes. Eventually this practice became more stylized and became known as rapping. By 1979 hip hop had become a commercially popular music genre and began to enter the American mainstream. In the 1990s, a form of hip hop called gangsta rap became a major part of American music, causing significant controversy over lyrics which were perceived as promoting violence, terrorism , promiscuity, drug use and misogyny. Nevertheless, by the beginning of the 2000s, hip hop was a staple of popular music charts and was being performed in many styles across the world.
The original article on Hip Hop Music studies the history, characteristics, social impact, world hip hop and notes.
Artistopia Hip Hop and Rap Music Sub-genres:
Alternative Hip Hop
East Coast
Horrorcore
West Coast
Beats/Bass
Freestyle
New School
Crunk
Hip Hop
Old School
Dirty South
Hip Hop Cover Song
Rap
Q. What is Jazz Music?
A. Jazz is an original American musical art form that originated around the start of the 20th century in New Orleans, rooted in African American musical styles blended with Western music technique and theory. Jazz uses blue notes, syncopation, swing, call and response, polyrhythms, and improvisation.
The Jazz Music original article covers "all that jazz" information on improvisation, history, typical instruments, debates, sources and references.
Artistopia Jazz Music Sub-genres:
Acid Jazz
General Jazz
Latin Jazz
Traditional Jazz
Bebop
Jazz Fusion
Smooth Jazz
Bossa Nova
Jazz Vocals
Swing Jazz
Q. What is Latin Music?
A. Latin American music, sometimes simply called Latin music, includes the music of many countries and comes in many varieties, from the simple, rural conjunto music of northern Mexico to the sophisticated habanera of Cuba, from the symphonies of Heitor Villa-Lobos to the simple and moving Andean flute. Music has played an important part in Latin America's turbulent recent history, for example the nueva canción movement. Latin music is very diverse, with the only truly unifying thread being the use of the Spanish language or, in Brazil, its close cousin the Portuguese language.
Latin America can be divided into several musical areas. Andean music, for example, includes the countries of western South America, typically Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Ecuador, Chile and Venezuela; Central American music includes El Salvador, Belize, Nicaragua, Panama, Guatemala, Honduras, and Costa Rica. Caribbean music includes many Spanish and French-speaking islands in the Caribbean Sea, including Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Martinique and Guadeloupe, though the Francophone islands are mistakenly not usually considered Latin even though they derive from Latin heritages just as their Spanish and Portuguese cousins. Brazil perhaps constitutes its own musical area, both because of its large size and incredible diversity as well as its unique history as a Portuguese colony. Although Spain isn't a part of Latin America, Spanish music (and Portuguese music) and Latin American music strongly cross-fertilized each other, but Latin music also absorbed influences from English and American music, and particularly, African music.
A. Metal music, known as heavy metal, is a genre of rock music that emerged as a defined musical style in the 1970s, having its roots in hard rock bands which, between 1969 and 1974, mixed blues and rock to create a hybrid with a thick, heavy, guitar-and-drums-centered sound, characterized by the use of highly-amplified distortion. Out of heavy metal various subgenres later evolved, many of which are referred to simply as "metal". As a result, "heavy metal" now has two distinct meanings: either the genre and all of its subgenres, or the original heavy metal bands of the 1970s style sometimes dubbed "traditional metal", as exemplified by Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Blue Öyster Cult and Black Sabbath.
Heavy metal began gaining popularity in the 1970s and 1980s, at which time many of the now existing subgenres first evolved. Heavy metal has a large world-wide following of fans known by terms such as "metalheads" and "headbangers".
For the full original article about the history and characteristics of Metal Music, click this link.
Artistopia Metal Music Sub-genres:
Alternative Metal
Grindcore
Metalcore
Stoner Metal
Ambient/Noise
Heavy Metal
Nu-Metal
Tropical
Black Metal
Industrial Metal
Power Metal
Thrash Metal
Death Metal
Instrumental Metal
Progressive Metal
Gothic Metal
Metal Cover Song
Rapcore
Q. What is Pop and Rock Music?
A. A huge segment of the music world, online and offline, we include Pop music and Rock music together.
Pop music is a genre of popular music distinguished from classical or art music and from folk music. The term indicates specific stylistic traits, but the genre also includes elements of rock, hip hop, dance, and country, making it a flexible category. The expression "pop music" may also be used to refer to particular subgenres (within the pop music genre) that are in some cases referred to as soft rock and pop/rock. The pop music genre also often involves mass marketing and consumer-driven efforts by major record companies, which makes it an often scorned genre by non-mainstream musicians.
The average consumer of pop music is often understood to be in his or her teenage years, making it an important mediator of youth culture. Partly because youth culture itself is an object of social concern, pop music has historically been the source of numerous moral panics, especially as many of the styles that influence it trickle up from minority groups (racial, ethnic, sexual or class-based) about which the dominant class holds negative stereotypes. In addition, many parents view explicit lyrics as gateways to sin, blaming pop music for increases in drug use, teen pregnancy, and violence. As a result, some conservative groups forbid children from attending social gatherings in which pop music may be played.
Rock is a form of popular music from the mid 20th century which typically features a vocal melody (often with vocal harmony) that is supported by accompaniment of electric guitars, a bass guitar, and drums, often with a strong back beat. Keyboard instruments such as organ, piano, or synthesizers are often used in many types of rock music. While brass and woodwind instruments, such as saxophone were common in some styles in earlier development of rock, they are less common in the newer subgenres of rock music since the 1990s. The genre of rock music is broad, and its boundaries loosely-defined, with related genres such as soul and funk sometimes being included in the definition of the term.
A major formative influence on rock was rock and roll, and rockabilly. In the 1960s, as British rock developed, the term "rock music" became popular. With the "British Invasion" this reinvigorated musical style spread back to the United States, and became an international cultural phenomenon with considerable social impact. Rock has evolved into a multitude of highly-varying styles with widespread popularity.
Browse the popular music genre of Rock Music from the original article.
Artistopia Pop and Rock Music Sub-genres:
Acoustic Rock
Contemporary
International
Progressive Rock
Americana
Euro Pop
Mainstream
Psychedelic Rock
British Pop
Folk Rock
Oldies Rock
Seasonal/Holiday
Christmas
Indie Pop/Rock
Pop Vocals
Southern Rock
Classic Rock
Instrumental Rock
Pop/Rock Cover Song
Teenage Pop
Traditional
Q. What is Urban and R&B Music?
A. The term urban contemporary was coined by the late New York DJ Frankie Crocker in the mid 1970s. Urban contemporary radio stations feature a playlist made up entirely of hip hop/rap music, contemporary R&B, and, on occasion, Caribbean music such as reggae, soca and reggaeton. The term "urban contemporary" has become heavily associated with contemporary R&B, and is often used as a synonym to describe the genre.
These stations focus primarily on African-American females between the ages of 18 and 34 but some are up to 49, and their playlists are dominated by singles by top-selling hip hop and R&B performers. Upon occasion, an urban contemporary station will play classic soul music songs from the 1970s and early 1980s to satisfy the older end of the format, but their playlists are otherwise focused on music released within the last five years.
Urban contemporary stations are the main focus of the airplay statistics for the Billboard magazine Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Singles & Tracks chart, which calculates the most popular R&B and hip-hop singles in the United States.
See Urban Music for further info from the original article.
Rhythm and blues (aka R&B or RnB) is a popular music genre combining jazz, gospel, and blues influences — first performed by African American artists.
The term was coined as a musical marketing term in the United States in 1947 by Jerry Wexler at Billboard magazine. It replaced the term race music (which originally came from within the black community, but was deemed offensive in the more positive postwar world), and the Billboard category Harlem Hit Parade in June 1949. The term was initially used to identify the rocking style of music that combined the 12 bar blues format and boogie-woogie with a back beat, which later became a fundamental element of rock and roll. In 1948, RCA Victor was marketing black music under the name Blues and Rhythm. The words were reversed by Wexler of Atlantic Records, the most aggressive and dominant label in the R&B field in the early years.
In “Rock & Roll: An Unruly History” (1995) Robert Palmer defines "rhythm and blues" as a catchall rubric used to refer to any music that was made by and for black Americans. In his 1981 book “Deep Blues” Palmer used "r&b" as a synonym for jump blues. Lawrence Cohn, author of “Nothing But the Blues”, writes that rhythm and blues was an umbrella term invented for industry convenience, which embraced all black music except classical music and religious music, unless a gospel song sold enough to break into the charts.
By the 1970s, rhythm and blues was being used as a blanket term to describe soul and funk. Today the acronym R&B is almost always used instead of the full rhythm and blues, and mainstream use of the term refers to a modern version of soul and funk-influenced pop music that originated as disco became less favorable.
A. World music is, most generally, all the music in the world. More specifically, the term is currently used to classify the many genres of non-western music which were previously described as "folk music" or "ethnic music". Succinctly, it can be described as "local music from out there", or "someone else's local music". Academic study of the term world music, as well as the musical genres and individual artists with which it has been associated, can be found in such disciplines as anthropology, Folkloristics, Performance Studies and ethnomusicology.
A. Artistopia provided this classification of music more as a holding card while an artist contemplates his official style. Note here that a visitor searching for music by more conventional "keywords" may not find "Undetermined" bands and artists. Unless a music artist has created something totally new and beyond all the above genre headings, is awaiting confirmation from the powers that be that the new music they have invented is a new trend, or has a GREAT new catch phrase that describes it, it is probably best to stick with the above descriptions.
Remember, music is beyond explanation for many but must be described in words that we humans can understand in print. Others define music as "organized sound", "auditory communication", and an "auditory art form". As with visual arts - paintings, drawings, sculpture, prints, photos, etc., defining types and styles of music becomes very personal, and thus at times, hard to fit in any one box.